- Welcome, everybody today. Lovely to see everyone back again. For those of you who have already joined us this morning, it is lovely to see you again, I'd like to begin by acknowledging the Wyandot peoples, the traditional owners of the land upon which I sit today and pay my respects to Aboriginal elders, past, present, and emerging, and any Aboriginal people who might be here with us in the training today. Welcome to indicator 6, Availability & Utilisation of Flexible Work & Leave Arrangements. You will have noted that this session is being recorded and the session is being recorded for the purposes of sharing it with you. Following this session, we'll be sharing early next week and it will also be available for other entities as well that were unable to make the session today. And I guess I just like to also start by acknowledging the flexibility of you all in this delayed session. I'm headed in the air ranges, was without power for a good solid week there and coming and going. And Jen had some storm damage that meant her roof caved in slightly, which was leading to some electrical and internet issues as well. So we really do appreciate your flexibility and we acknowledge that many of you are experiencing stress with this work at the moment, and we're really hoping for it to go ahead. So just wanna acknowledge that. We apologise for that and look forward to our session today.
- Thanks, Kathy. I will also just note, as we move into this brief introduction to the session, I know that there are some of you who are attending multiple sessions, many of you, but there's also quite a few people in today who have not attended our other session. So I do apologise the next five minutes intro just might be a little bit repetitive for those of you who have already attended one of our other sessions and thank you for your patience. So for those of you who haven't been in a session with us before, there may be one or two of you today who didn't attend one of our earlier audit sessions, Kathy and I are the co-facilitators of these sessions. We're not commissioned employees, but we're part of a consulting partnership, GenderWorks Australia, that is supporting the commission as a member of the panel of providers, to support entities, to meet obligations under the act. A few key points about how the session will run today as with all sessions that cover workplace, gender equality, I do want to note that participating in these sessions can raise issues for any individual at any time. And if participating in this session does raise any issues for you, I would encourage you as a first point of call, to contact your organization's EAP provider, or also potentially seeks further support from other specialists services that you can see too there on the screen, 1800 RESPECT and Safe Steps. Other things to note about the session today, please do use the chat function. We have some time for Q&A within the hour, some open discussion, but Kathy will monitor the chat while I'm speaking and vice versa. And we'll try to cover everything that we do see come up there. Feel free also to put up your hand or come off mute to interrupt us. We welcome that at any time, also. Probably to preempt some of the questions you may have on hand today, I will just note that the focus is on data analysis. So analysing a completed data set with gaps, about a data set that you've completed. We're not looking at challenges, troubleshooting content in the template, that sits with the commission and not necessarily challenges with manipulating data you extract from your system to populate that reporting template. We're happy for you to note questions on that though. 'Cause we will download them from the chat and pass them on to the commission in summary, once we've completed all these analysis sessions. Really this slide for those of you who haven't seen it yet, the main point is just to highlight where this analysis stage sits I guess. Assuming you have completed data collection, you've documented your gaps, and now you're looking at your datasets, your workforce data and your employee experience survey data, and starting the analysis to see what you can find. The commission holds the responsibility for troubleshooting, fixing the template. And we're supporting the commission with, running these sessions and writing up some narrative guidance notes on what your analysis might look like, what you might be looking for in your analysis. And once you complete that analysis, you'll be taking that analysis to your broader workforce, to other stakeholders, to start to look at whether the findings you find in your analysis, what we talk you through today, what you might be looking for, just to sense-check that with your organisation before you then define your strategies and measures and report back to the commission. I'll just note we have had come up in a number of the other sessions, questions around, you've got your data set, you analyse it, what are you actually submitting to the commission in terms of your data? And I'll just confirm that there is no requirement to submit your data that you've collated, data that you've populated, your indicative reporting template with. At any stage right now, immediately post 30 June, as you're doing your analysis, the requirement will be to submit your data sets as an annex to your gender equality action plan. So that's due currently the 1st of December. What that submission would look like is not yet confirmed. At this stage it will be a submission of your indicative reporting template, the Excel spreadsheet, as an annex to GEAP, your gender equality action plan. The commission is also working on a reporting platform. And if that's built by that stage, you will be uploading your data into that reporting platform at the same time as you upload your GEAP. But that's what this year looks like in terms of data. Feel free to pop any questions in the chat, if there's any immediate questions on any of that and we can pick those up. But what we're looking at today is indicator 6. So availability and utilisation of flexible work and leave arrangements. Sorry, my computer is just... Apologies for that with the slides. So, data sets under indicator 6, we've got some workforce data. So that's internal data in your indicative reporting template. We've got table 6.1 to 6.6 that you'll find in your indicative reporting template. One key point to note here is that under indicator 6, there is no intersectional data that needs to be collected or that needs to be analysed in your workforce data set. So you do have that one single worksheet with a series of tables under indicator 6. You do also have some employee experience data. At the moment, it's response data for nine survey questions, which are mapped to Indicate 6. If you are looking for that mapping, you can find it by going to the commission's audit web page and downloading the survey question set. And there is a column on the right hand side in that Excel document, which maps each of the questions to a particular indicator so that this stage there's nine mapped to indicator 6. There's two key topics for indicator 6, as you'll all know if you've taken a look at... Which I imagine most of you have, that's why you here in the analysis session. If you take a look at the tables that are required, we're looking at uptake of flexible work and uptake of leave. So three key types of leave, family violence leave, parental leave, and carers' leave. So we'll spend the first part of this session looking at flexible work. And the second part of the session, looking at those leave types, family violence leave, parental leave, and carers' leave. Lots of the principles of analysis and the questions you are asking and the kind of approach you will take across these two aspects of indicator 6, will be quite similar. That's why they're grouped in this indicator together, but we'll just look at them separately at this stage, just to make sure that we can field any questions specifically that relate to either flexible work or those leave types. Key principles. As always, as you go into any of this data, before you head into analysis, you're always desegregating by gender as your primary measure. And as I mentioned under these indicator, in your workforce data, you won't be disaggregating by intersectional demographics. You will be able to do that in your employee experience responses based on those demographic questions in the employee experience survey, but not in your workforce data. And really the same kind of initial steps, the overarching focus of all your analysis and as well under this indicator, is asking those set up questions. Look at your aggregate data, and then look at your disaggregated data and see if that tells a different story for each of the individual genders. And then ask what differences you see between the experiences, the representation, the access of men, women, and gender diverse people, if you have enough data. And then going further deeper into the data and starting to unpack the differences between genders and employment types. So what we're looking at, looking at our first flexible work table, which is proportion of employees with formal flexible work arrangements. Four components of the data to reflect on as with your broader workforce composition data and much of your other data sets, you're looking to reflect on this access to flexible work by classification, by gender, and by employment basis. And just to note, it's this data in this table is proportion of flexible work arrangements, not numbers, sorry to note that. So this is what your table looks like. You will have all looked at it. As we've noted in other sessions, and just noting again for those of you who are in this session as a first analysis session, how you initially start to look at the data really does hinge on how you've mapped your classification levels. So your approach to analysis will depend on that. You just need to keep that in mind. So the overarching guidance from the commission is to map those classification levels by reporting level to CEO. But we know that where that's been difficult, the commission has recommended mapping based on existing EAs to avoid duplication and where that also doesn't work, others are using other methods map that classification. I'm just going to run a quick poll, really in the interest of collating more information that we can report back to the commission. We know that classification in analysis under all indicators a challenging point, sorry, for lots of entities. So we're just trynna collect as much information as we can to feed back to the commission about how you've chosen to map your classification levels. And I apologise again, for those of you who've been in multiple sessions that are repeating this poll in each session. Thank you. I would just share those results. Really seeing quite similar data that we're seeing from other entities that about just over 35% have confirmed that you're able to and you are mapping by reporting level to CEO. A smaller number of you looking at EAs, and then quite a few that are still as yet undecided. We do note for those of you who haven't been in our other sessions, I will just repeat, what we've noted that we have reported back to the commission and the commissioner are aware that this is a challenge. And we're using these sessions as also a way to feed back to the commission. Some of the challenges that people have been having in that regard. Thank you. I'll just move that out of the way. So I have seen, just that note that's come up in the chat in terms of tracking for more flexible work as it becomes a norm. So it's not necessarily documented as a formal process, that it is really difficult to track it in quite a systematic way. If it sits locally within a certain team and it's just an agreement rather than a formal agreement that's documented in your payroll systems. And absolutely that's where you really will rely more on survey results. We'll talk a little bit about that shortly, how you can use the mix of your workforce data and your employee experience data, to really start to tell a story under this indicator. And it is really one indicator where your employee experience data will be really important. And in the absence of strong uptake of your employee experience surveys based on 2021, what's happening for lots of people, you will need to start think later down the track, how consultation can fill those gaps, if you've only got a much lower uptake in your employee experience survey, but we'll talk about that a little bit more shortly. So the first table flexible work is that this one on screen proportion of employees with formal flexible work arrangements. Second table we're looking at is number of senior leaders, working with formal flexible work arrangements by gender and type of arrangement. So we're only tracking type of flexible work arrangement for senior leaders, but there is a question in the employee experience survey related to whether or not you're accessing flexible work and the type of flexible work that you're accessing. So that's one area where you'll be able to get a little bit more information, if you're wanting to look at types of flexible work arrangements by your broader organisation, not just senior leaders. But what we're looking at here in this table, what you're required to look at, is senior leaders. Key point to note, there isn't an overarching definition of senior leader, there's guidance, and you'll need to decide what that means in your organisation in terms of executive and director levels, for example, but you'll be able to make that decision, I guess, on who you include in these tables. Some organisations we know are only going with executive. Others are going with management level and above, so upper management levels, but that'll be really up to you to decide. What this table I guess you'll be able to see is really not just looking at each individual type of arrangement in and of itself with the gender split, but also where comparing the different types of arrangements and where you might see women overrepresented in particular arrangements, men overrepresented or underrepresented in other types of arrangements to start to understand utilisation. And then when you look at your employee experience surveys to understand perceived availability of these arrangements and the effect that they have on people's career pathways in the organisation. So those kind of questions is really where you'll be able to draw on your employee experience survey data. As I mentioned, this is really one indicator where it's going to help you tell the full story, looking at your employee experience data. You'll get a snapshot and understanding of gendered utilisation of flexible leave in your workforce data. But what you'll start to understand from looking at responses to these questions on screen, so confidence to request flexible work, perception of flexible work as a barrier to success, perception of cultural treatment of those who use flexible work arrangements. You'll start to understand a little bit more about the enabling environment about whether or not people feel confident and supported to access those arrangements. So one example might be in your workforce data, if you're looking at proportion of people using flexible work arrangements, and you see that there is an over-representation of women using flexible work arrangements. Socialisation of gender stereotypes might lead us to think, "Well, women are using those arrangements "because they also have caring responsibilities. "Women are overrepresented in those arrangements "'cause women want those arrangements." But what you might start to find when you unpack your responses to your employee experience survey and questions like, I'm confident, if I requested a flexible work arrangement, it would be given due consideration. When you disaggregate the response data for that question, you might actually find an over-representation of men at certain levels that don't feel confident that if they requested a flexible work arrangement, it would be given due consideration. And this is really one indicator, not just in flexible work, but also in leave that we'll talk about later, that you may actually start to be able to redress, rebalance, the gendered perception, gendered availability of flexible work, because we do know in a lot of cases that men may not feel supported to access carers' leave, flexible work, and other arrangements. We also know that women may feel supported to access those arrangements, but they actually feel like it then has an effect on their career pathways. The perception of flexible work, being a barrier to success in their organisation. There will be lots of nuanced information to unpack in these employee experience survey questions, that start to tell the full story of what your stats mean in practise. And as I mentioned earlier, if you are looking at not meeting your targets in terms of responses for your employee experience data, you look to be shared tooling consultations, scheduling those now, but to run following your analysis, which can unpack a bit more data about confidence to request flexible work arrangements, perception of that being an actual barrier to their success, and the general workplace culture in relation to those who use flexible work arrangements. That slide is just a reiteration of those kinds of things that I've talked about, the things you might look at. But what I'll do now before I move on to leave, is I'll just open the floor for anyone who might like to ask questions about flexible work challenges. You're thinking you might have an analysis. I can see there's a few things coming up in the chat. So I'll just quickly read those, but Kathy, if you wanna jump in and let me know if there's anything in there.
- We'll start with a couple of overarching questions, "How does COVID impact on remote working "and flexible arrangements?"
- You will see in the guide that that is specifically mentioned, that where working from home, sorry, is an arrangement that is at the direction of government or the organisation, in relation specifically to COVID, that you do not need to capture data on that for the purposes of this audit. I imagine the guidance will be updated over the reporting period ahead of the next reporting period pending what happens with those ongoing lockdowns, et cetera, guidance to be working from home.
- The next one is, "Do senior leaders need to be "formally accessing the arrangements? "Because a number of leaders "access that without a formal documentation process."
- That is actually an excellent question. Whether in the requirement for that table, it's formal, flexible working arrangements, I would imagine it is formal because it matches the requirement of the previous table that you're looking at formal flexible working arrangements. I'm not sure if you have more to add to that, Cathy.
- No, unfortunately. The next one is the healthcare specific question. So, "Shifts swaps was identified "in the list of flexible work arrangements. "As part of their department's guidelines. "all nurses can swap shifts." So there is, "Is it appropriate to include employees on the nurses EBA "as a yes for flexible working conditions? "Or is it actually the uptake of it "that's the key component of that you record?" So they've got access. So everybody has access to that condition under the enterprise agreement so they can negotiate a shift swaps as they like. So it's probably not formally documented anywhere, is my interpretation, and Megan feel free to correct me if that's incorrect. Is it impropriate to include in the figures, all of those nurses under that enterprise agreement?
- I will answer the question based on the information given, it's sort of an example of an all roles flex approach. So any nurse could be able to access those arrangements, but it's not documented which particular nurse has actually chosen to access it, then you would not be just including all nurses. Because the idea is not to understand access, it's to understand uptake.
- And the the similar thing.
- But jump in if that doesn't make sense in your context.
- It does, but that's not what the question asked.
- Oh, sorry, Megan. So your answer is correct. Sorry. It says the proportion of employees with formal flexible working arrangements.
- So it's uptake. As in it's those that are utilising.
- It doesn't say that though. And I suppose this is a main thing for our nurses, because it does impact probably half of our workforce that actually are able to do shift swaps. There's limits on how many shifts swaps they can do and how and when they do that, it's literally, they put in a little form and they submit it through and it happens. To not include that data because it's not formal, yet they have access and they do use it. It would seem-
- It's lost.
- I'm not talking about your full timing nurses and the likes of that, but I'm kind of hesitant to not include it given it's such a large proportion of the workforce.
- I'm not sure if you've already already taken that question to the commission. What you've said makes absolute sense that if you don't include it, then you're actually not capturing a very flexible component of what you're offering as an employer, and what's offered through the EA. I will take that question to the commission
- It's a big one. And again, like most of our conversations, I think long as you clarify how you've interpreted, obviously it's more meaningful if we looked at uptake as well, just for the initial audit I'm kind of like, "Well, it's there," but what would be good is look it uptake in future.
- I know we've said this in other sessions that questions like that I think the commission is also working to address, but may not address them ahead of analysis and submission this year, if you've documented the way you've done, things documented in the indicative reporting template, so there is a cell where you can document notes and it's documented there. The commission I know we'll be doing some comparative analysis of that kind of work that's been done to then update guidance in the next reporting period. I know that's not a response now, but please do document things like that in that space, on your indicative reporting template. Because that question particularly I imagine, that's not a unique question to you, to your entity, that employ nurses, but also all others that employ that kind of flexibility, broad base flexibility arrangement, will be grappling with.
- I think it'll be a lot of shift workers.
- So across a lot of sectors, that's gonna be relevant there in that question.
- Just the clarification question on the survey questions in the presentation, "Are these from the people matters survey, "or are they different?"
- Same questions. The numbering of the question, what I will note is quoted directly from the commissions. So the employee experience survey, which is just the gendered questions. So while the wording of the questions, that's been up on the slides is the same, it may appear in a different order in the full People matter survey for those entities who are doing the full people matters survey, not just the gender questions which entities are doing, if they don't do people matters.
- "Should we be capturing IDOs "in the flexible working arrangements data collection?"
- Do you have the list on hand from the annex to the guide, Kathy? We can check on that. If it is not stated in the list in the commissions guide, in the annex, there's a list of arrangements. My initial response would be no, but we will check on that maybe during the session.
- And I think that's it for questions. Unless I've missed any, and anyone wants to come off mute or has something else to add.
- Oh, good. Feel free at any point to jump in with a question at any point, but otherwise we will just look now at the second component of this indicator, which is looking at uptake of leave, looking at availability, utilisation of leave, family violence leave, parental leave, and carers' leave. In this component, there is both workforce data and employee experience data. So you've got a few tables in your indicative reporting template related to the types of leave. And also some questions on leave perceptions, which I'll take a look at shortly. So similarly as with your workforce composition data, you're looking at data by classification, gender, and employment basis, and also by the three types of leave. And what we really do, we really do imagine, when you're getting to analysing this data, you will really have already done the analysis of the data on the indicator one, which is workforce composition. So you'll already have that basic sense awareness, understanding of what the composition of your organisation is already. This is really adding the lens of use of leave to that kind of base understanding that you've already developed. So there's quite a few tables in this one, a couple of small tables and one larger table. This is just one classification row from the parental leave table. So we're looking here at headcount of parental leave takers by gender, and also the average number of paid weeks and unpaid weeks. What we do know in talking to quite a number of entities is that some are not able to provide full and complete data for this table, but they may be able to complete those headcount columns at least to start building their data. But they're not necessarily based on what their systems are able to provide, what they're easily able to extract. They're not able to complete those two right-hand tables, calculating the paid and unpaid weeks. I'd just note that there in case that's a sense of assurance, if you're not able to complete the data. Again, this is grouped by classification level. How you've mapped your classification levels will influence the way that you can analyse this data. And then these are quite tiny on the slide, but if you are able to read those, that's the other three tables. So looking at people who exited during parental leave, and then the last two tables are number of people accessing family violence leave and accessing carers' leave by gender. So, as compared to many other tables in the indicative reporting template, a little bit simpler, these ones. And again, in terms of employee experience survey data, I'll just note, again, those question numbers may not match the question numbers in the People matters survey if you're doing the full People matter survey, but the content of the questions and the response options is the same. But again, similar to flexible work, this is an indicator where you're going to get a lot of rich data to tell a more full and complete story around not just who's taking carers' leave and who's taking family violence leave, or who's taking parental leave, but how the wraparound organisational culture influences people's comfortability, people's confidence to take up those leave arrangements. And it really is, again, similar to flexible work, when we look at these leave arrangements in area where your analysis might start to uncover the fact that men may not feel comfortable to be accessing this leave because of broader societal norms, cultural norms within the organisation. And it's one area where there is across the state, there's a lot of work to be done in this space. Just suggesting that as one area of analysis, it's not the only area of analysis. So the kind of survey questions you're looking at here are really focused on whether taking up these leaves options is felt to be a barrier to success in the organisation. And you'll be able to disaggregate responses to this data, not just on gender, but also gender and another demographic identifier if you've got enough responses, so potentially gender and employment type and gender and other intersectional identities because as I mentioned in the workforce data, you won't be able to unpack the gender and other intersectional identities because you won't be collecting that data and populating your workforce indicative reporting template with intersectional data. You'll only be looking at gender data. And similar in terms of analysis, the same kind of things I've talked about with flexible leave, that you might be looking at the gender split in your workforce data. And also the gen going deeper and looking at gender split by employment type, because you will end slip by classification level, if you've mapped your classifications by reporting level to CEO, because you may see that. One of the things we do see in lots of entities and one of the things we do see in VPSC, Victorian Public Sector Commission, broader data, is that you might see a more representative gender split women overrepresented, but you might see a more representative gender split of access to parental leave or carers' leave at lower classification levels in your organisation. But as you move up into higher levels, when you look at your employee experience data, you might see that there is not a comfortability to apply for those types of leave, or there's a greater perception that taking those types of leads is a barrier to success in the organisation. I will leave it open to questions now. Well, you can stop listening to my voice talking to you and happy to take questions on analysis questions you have about leave. But also if there's anything we missed in the flexible work arrangements, I'm happy to take any questions there as well.
- There is a question in the chat, Jen, from Joanne about it being a difficult year to measure carers' leave as a number of employees access due to COIVID when they'd run out of other leave to support remote learning and those kinds of things.
- I'm not sure, there's a specific answer to that question, recognising absolutely that difficulty and also recognising further layers of that difficulty in terms of people also didn't take carers' leave because they were already at home with their dependence, anyway.
- What you might see is a strong gender difference there, and that might be what you unpack through your consultation phase about how people of different genders felt comfortable to use their carers' leave during COVID as well. That might be the conversation that the organisation has. And that's the only question we've got on notice at the moment. If there's anyone else that would like to speak up.
- Well, I love Sitting in a comfortable silence.
- So thanks, Brianna.
- I will just note why people are thinking also a question came up in one of our other sessions related to, so what happens? We analyse data, what we know, what we see, but how do we know what to do next? Or how do we know how that compares in general? There is a lot of useful data, Australian context data. There is some data from the Workplace Gender Equality Agency, but there is also data from the UK, just in terms of they've been tracking this under their legislation access to flexible work, access to type of flexible work. And there has been a lot of research and analysis about the kind of approaches you can take to addressing this. We can share a link to that when we send through the materials, but it is also one that you can easily find through Googling, just looking at that kind of... It's another country I guess, that's looked at legislation to drive regular reporting and measuring progress.
- Can you see at least these questions there, Jen?
- "Anyway recommendations on using gender and age data "about accessing carers' leave?" To note that probably you're not going to be able to do that in your workforce data under this indicator in the same way that you are able to do that for other indicators, because you're not required to complete intersectional tables, age being one of those. You will be able to though look at, if you have enough responses in your employee experience survey, there is an age question, so you will be able to track, desegregate by that, I guess, take the leave, the age, and the gender. I'm just checking in my head, that's not too many demographics, not only to demographics, which is okay. And you'll be able to see differences, I guess, in terms of the access. And also the main thing you'll be able to see, is differences in whether or not people see that as a barrier to success. A barrier to success is where you might start to track. So you might be looking at the age range of 24 to 35, really focusing in on that age range, or even the two age ranges, making the assumption based on demographic data, that people that are having children. You might be able to look at that and start focusing on those age ranges, to look at responses to the questions around whether it's perceived as a barrier to your career, whether you feel comfortable taking that leave and looking at that data, not just for women, obviously, but for women, men, and gender diverse people. I'm not sure if you had anything else to add to that, Kathy.
- No, just clarifying that you're talking about the People matter survey there.
- Not workforce data.
- Alison's noted that it's good to have an external and international benchmark approach as well. Federally when we've looked at Workplace Gender Equality agency, although that's not public sector, it's corporate, we have seen that if you kind of track the trends, they started collecting that data almost a decade ago now that legislation came in and over the first couple of years, it was figuring things out that iterative kind of learning process. But we have seen in the last half of that decade, I guess, this past five years, a lot more benchmarking kind of analysis coming through that will be useful. Doesn't help right now in terms of the specifically the Victorian context, but it will be a part of the future analysis through multiple reporting periods. We'll see a lot more kind of external benchmarking happening for the sector for you to look at, "Okay, I'm a health sector entity, "or I'm a local government entity, "what's happening in my sector "and where do I see it against that? "What should I be aiming for?" We're all a part of building that data right now. We don't have that data to reflect on yet.
- Thanks, Jen. And a general question about the local government ANZSCO codes and the availability.
- Excellent question. The codes themselves, yes, you can review them on the ABS website or on the VPSC website. In terms of mapping for local government, not yet available and have not been shared. I know that the mapping process is happening, but in terms of what that mapping looks like, will it be a specific prescribed list? Here's what you do. Or will it be guidance on how to do that mapping, I can't confirm. I'm not sure if you have more to add there, Kathy.
- No, just that it's a wait and see point in time at the moment, unfortunately, and we know that it is an issue of concern and question for local government, but we do just have to wait unfortunately. I think that's it for questions. Any more from anyone that they'd like to pop through or verbally share with us? You're very welcome to. I guess my other comment would be around your case for change and your vision for gender equality will help you to inform what you do with your data as well. So taking that forward into your consultation phase will be really helpful when you're reviewing that data about the difference of where you currently are and where you see yourself in four years time. So just really encouraging you to have a bit of a think about that over the next of weeks, as you move towards your consultation phase too. There no more questions, Jen?
- No. I'm just looking back through the chat, I think the only response, the big one we'll take to the commission, is that question which came up particularly around the shifts swap, but that the kind of difference between interpretation of availability, uptake utilisation. And we'll try to get a general response on that, not specific to that example that was raised from the commission before we send out the slides. So when we do send out the slides and recording we can include if there's any that we've received, a response on that one, just cause I think that's gonna apply to lots of people, the interpretation of that requirement. Thanks, Megan. Thanks for the thumbs up. Alison, were you just coming on? I think you're still on mute you video.
- I can see. I'm going like click, click, click. So this has a bit more of a general question based on the fact that, as I said before, these have been fantastic and very useful, and I know that you've had to juggle a few of them around. So I'm just sort of following the joining dots, but this one I understand... I'm very sorry to hear about your roof.
- I keep hearing about it in every session. It's like
- This is number one and two. So we've done that one, that was this morning. Now we've done number six, which is the flexible work.
- And we had five yesterday.
- So the five yesterday.
- Even one happening for sexual harassment. We're still waiting for confirmation of the updated indicators. You'll see in that indicative reporting template for indicator 4, sexual harassment, there's a note at the top saying that the commission is working on updating that.
- Watch this pace. But the pay equity one, was that the one that had to get cancelled as well this week?
- So pay equity didn't happen, Wednesday 2:00 to 3:00, and we're rescheduling that. We'll confirm today, looking at the same time next Wednesday. So 2:00 to 3:00 p.m. next Wednesday. We are also looking at scheduling in a new one for indicator 7, gendered segregation, we're still working with the commission to figure that out. So we will send that out hopefully today, otherwise early next week that'll happen in June as well. You said before that you'll send the recordings out and the slides early next week, and there's a couple things you're still just waiting on, but first one, the indicator 1 and 2, apart from some of the tweaks with the document, is that one ready to be shared? Could you share that recording earlier than perhaps some of these other sessions that you've run?
- We probably won't share them until next week. They won't come through today. I just confirmed that. We just need to edit the actual MP4 just to take out the beginning and the end, but it will be shareable early next week. And we can also share the PowerPoints as well. Even early next week if we're not yet sharing the recordings, we can at least share the PDF of the PowerPoints.
- Personally for me, the PowerPoint, even of just one and two would be really helpful sort of earlier rather than later. But I do understand the process you need to go through. I'm just understanding it. So thanks very much.
- No worries. Thank you, Alison. I cannot answer that question, Joe. The question in the chat is, "Do we use people's existing role, "as opposed to their clinical role, "as in head of clinical services "is akin to see your own physician?" I'm not sure if that's a question that other people in the health sector are able to say what they have done. I'm not in a position to answer that one though.
- It will be good to know 'cause I've got a lot of people who are classified very differently in ANZSCO coding. It kind of puts them on a different pay level. It's just interesting.
- It is. The only comment I would make, but please jump in anyone else who's in the health sector who is grappling with that, is that the focus, I guess, of indicator 7 is gendered segregation within the workforce. I'm thinking this through as I'm speaking. You are looking at the occupation in terms of clinical occupation potentially. That's just me starting to think about what it will mean for your analysis. How you classify them on the ANZSCO codes. I'd need to think that through more and happy to chat through that.
- Okay. So just to be clear, we've classified for example, the head of prison services by their position in the ANZSCO codes, not by their psychiatry.
- Hi, it's Lisa Benenga.
- Thanks, Lisa.
- I find this one tricky as well because our payroll system already has ANZSCO codes attached already set but it's to their pay code. So in that case it would be against their clinical pay rate. We have executive directors that are paid as psychiatrists, but they also have a lead role. But their ANZSCO is actually based on what their pay grade is. And that's just automated. And I've been grappling with, "Do I need to do it but against their position? "Or do I just leave it as what's in the system "at the moment?" And that's something health will have to make a decision on.
- Does their pay grade, according to their-
- What they are getting.
- In the organisation?
- Yeah. A good example would be perhaps our chief psychiatrist, they've got a general, I guess, executive role, but they're getting paid as a consultant. So, they're an ANZSCO is based against their medical consultant pay grade. Did that makes sense?
- And some guidance please, would be very helpful. I've decided to klatch that cause it's already hardwired into our payroll system at the moment. And I think whilst it will give us some general good information, I think that maybe the action plan for future to look at.
- The only thing I will say there is that sounds like absolutely the approach that the commission would suggest in terms of your specific example that you're mentioning there, Lisa.
- I can see also Kathy was madly writing notes there while you're both speaking. That's also a question we'll take to the commission when they're looking at that indicator 7 session also.
- Thank you.
- We might close it off there. Thank you very much for attending the session today, and as Kathy mentioned at the beginning, for your patience with the rescheduling. I've just noted Megan's put another comment in the chat there for those of you who are looking at that ANZSCO question as well. Otherwise we will round off the session now and thank you for your time. As I mentioned, we'll be in touch for those who registered for the indicator 3 session with confirming the rescheduling and the Zoom link for that one next week.
- Thanks all. See you later.
- Thank you.
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